People Over Perks podcast ep. 4 – Daniela Kurrer, Chief People Officer at HeyJobs

Our fourth guest on the People Over Perks podcast is Daniela Kurrer, Chief People Officer at HeyJobs.

We speak about how Daniela has scaled HeyJobs as they’ve grown over the past four years, how she’s building a feedback culture within the company, how HeyJobs supports their employees’ mental health... And much more!

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Full episode transcript

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, Daniela, thank you for joining us today on the People Over Perks Podcast.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Nice, hi, Andy. Thanks for having me

Andy Parker (host)

- Great. So Daniela, you are the Chief People Officer at HeyJobs. Tell us about, HeyJobs. What is HeyJobs as a company?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- HeyJobs was founded in 2016 and our vision is to enable everyone to find the right job to live a fulfilling life. So what we basically do is like our aim is to connect talent, acquisition, professional, to recruit us with talent in the marketplace. And I think as a talent acquisition manager or recruiter, you know the pain point of finding the right challenge and really being able to reach that talent that you want to join your company. And we support recruiters in a very automated way to find the right talent for all the open job positions, and also help talent for them to have more visibility on which companies they applied to, what's out there for them, and have it really easy to apply to these positions.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, excellent. And how would you describe your role there then, as the chief people officer?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, I would describe my role to really being at the center of building this company and really caring for making sure that we have a very safe, very productive, very pleasant work environment for everyone, and just creating a workspace where everybody really can be themselves and contribute to the teams and just be successful in their jobs.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, excellent. And how big is the company in total right now?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, we're at 120 people at the moment.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, 120 people. And tell us a bit about your team specifically then. So, how big is your team that you manage and how is that structured?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, we are seven people on the team, and I think we work really closely with each other. So, we really aligned so we can create one very consistent and very pleasant employee experience for everyone who's joining HeyJobs but also who's developing at HeyJobs. And we do have very set team roles. So, we have three people caring for the talent acquisition part. And then we have one person who's really focusing on the people operations and building the structure, and one person for the office, and who's caring for the team events. And then we have a person who does very specialized part of the learning and development. And I think we have very specialized roles, but make sure that we are working very consistently as a team together.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, great. And do all of those people report directly into you, or are there certain tiers?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- There's certain tiers. So, at the moment we have a fantastic head of recruiting who is caring for that side and who reports into me, and we have to, we could just who will report to him and just go about the daily business. And then I have currently three people reporting into me who are caring more for the employee engagement, the operation side.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see. Okay, that makes sense. And then who do you report to as the chief people officer?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I report to Marius, who's one of the founders, but also the CEO of the company.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see. Okay. And has that always been the case, that you've always reported into the founder?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- It has actually. I think both founders called Mauriuses. So, I think both of them build the company with a very people centric outlook. So, I think people was always at the core of the company building the company. And I think it was always quite natural that they had a very direct connection to the people function. And I think it's always been like this and I think it's for me real luxury to really be so close reporting to him and discussing it with him because I don't think in every company people has that kind of standing and that kind of focus for CEO. And I think, we are as a company are very lucky.

Andy Parker (host)

- Cool, yeah, that's great. Always great to hear when the founders are so tightly connected to the company culture, and that's always a focus for them. So, I wanted to ask you about your own career progression at HeyJobs 'cause you've been with the company for four years now, is that correct?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes. So, I joined in January, 2017 which is basically round about the time that the company had a product market fit and was really finding into its own of what we're doing today and growing. I think my job title when I joined was at feel-good manager and executive assistant and it ended up just being varying a lot of hats and doing a lot of things. I was originating a lot of the business operations, which HR was always a part of, but it also had finance in it. I think as scaling a company is not a very straight pass, so, was my career development. I think there was a lot of off topics coming to me, things that I gave up, things that I gained. And I think it's been like a very much a roller coaster developing into this function. But I think this is part of the adventure of being part of scaling a company that it's not a very straight career path but you're just trying yourself out and what you wanna do, and what you're good at as much as the company grows with you.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And so, your previous job title up until very recently was VP of people.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes, it was .

Andy Parker (host)

- So, now as the Chief People Officer, how would you describe the main differences between those two roles? Has your scope and level of responsibility changed as such?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I think with titles and levels, I think every company has a very specific set up and system and what they mean internally. For me, because there was no Chief People Officer when I was with P, I think for me it didn't change as much the input that I had. Like, I think I had for the last couple of years already had a seat at the table to speak when we were discussing people topics, how we will grow the company from a people perspective. So, I think, in that sense, it hasn't really changed the scope so much. I think the work as you grow through the difference level that we have at HeyJobs, the work becomes a little bit more strategically. So, I think you're more moving from very operational topics in the beginning to making plans for the next year, for the next five years. So, I think this has become a little bit more of a focus for me moving into this role. But yeah, I think as a VP being the lead of the people function already it hasn't really changed that much. I liked it personally because I think from a perspective of how diverse the leadership team is, I think it is nice to do it as a signaling to the company as well, that this is possible for everyone and this is a very natural career progression that's also possible for everyone.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, yeah, that sounds great. Within your role now, what are the main metrics that you're looking at? What are the things that you are really measuring to know that you're being successful in your role?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, to be quite frank, coming from a little bit of a finance background, I think I do really enjoy Excel and metrics . I think following them up and also what are you measuring? And what's meaningful to you, is very different for different companies. The two metrics that we track very consistently and very regularly is partly the recruiting side which is hires made, hires signed. I'm looking into the conversion rates for me, how the hiring process getting just to do a lot more predictable resource planning and trying to anticipate where you're gonna have button next, where do you need to adapt roadmap? So, I think this is the metrics that is very important for you to see what are the capacities of the company in the next three months, in the next six months. And the second one is actually the team happiness which is how we call the engagement survey that we do quarterly. And I think it is a real regular sense of the pulse of the company, and how people feel, and what areas we need to get better at, or what areas we're already really good at. So, this was the two metrics that I very closely monitor.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see, okay. And then, within that engagement survey, what does that look like then? How many questions does it consist of? Does that give everyone in the company? Talk us through that process.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes. So, it's currently a very manual survey. It's an Excel sheet . It consists of, I think, 36 questions. So, it's quite thorough and it goes to everyone in the company. So, it doesn't matter if it's a working student, or a team lead, or a C-level. It lets you goes to everyone. And we try to also find some parameters. We try to see if there's any differences that people just joined the company of they've been with the company for a year. And it's concerned with like a whole scope of questions relating to like personal resilience. Like, how do you feel currently? But also how do you assess the team relationships? Do you feel you can learn in the company? Is there anything you would like us there's also open questioning with anything you would like us to improve. What could improve your happiness? It's a bunch of questions about, like, how would you regard the relationship with your leadership, with your team lead? Do you feel HeyJobs is a good organization to work for? So, it's very thorough, and I think it takes a lot of invest from the people, but also from us. But I think the quality and breadth of data is really good to have for us as the people team to work on.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, and is the survey entirely anonymous?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- It's entirely anonymous. So what we do, we try to do it by team. But obviously not all teams have enough team members to really make sure that this is anonymous. So, we do group teams into bigger teams, and we always allow for a minimum of four people in one team to make sure that it's anonymous. There is questions if you, and I think this is a question that is right. Like, if you wanted to do it because of the parameters, like how long people have been in the company where they working, you could probably find it out. I mean, this is the reality of a company that's not 10,000 people. But I don't know really know why this is of concern. Like, I want people to be honest. I want to know what people are thinking. And for me, this was feedback that I'm really grateful for. So, I think this is a culture. We also have at HeyJobs where we don't only have this type of survey, but we have a bunch of very regular opportunities to give feedback. And I think this for us as a company is something we want to have open discussions, and have an honest and direct feedback culture. I don't care who said what? I just wanna know, what are the big things we need to do? What do we need to look out to? Are we creating a good work environment for everyone?

Andy Parker (host)

- Yup, yup, yup, excellent. And with 36 questions, obviously that's a lot of data that you then create. How do you then sit down and go through that data? And who is then part of that process of reading through those questions and going through them, doing the analysis, and then taking that through to building an action plan? And how does that work within HeyJobs?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, so, we as the people team will analyze the data. And we usually will analyze it by area. So, there will be an engineering part like the product owners, what does the revenue organization think? And we will share this with the C-level that's responsible for this area. So very high level, we will share this information and we will also share the combination of teams that area includes, and the C-level will share it with their direct reports. So, this will be part of a conversation in the follow-up time that they have a conversation about, okay, hey, for our specific area, what can we do? Is there anything, maybe in the tech stack we need to improve the way we do sprint meetings? Is there something we can change in the way we sell? Is there something, and do people need more training in certain areas? So, I think for the very team specific areas, the C-level will actually own that process. And then obviously we will also look at things that are a little bit more general and more people related, like, hey, can we have a diff more plants in the office? I mean, it's an easy win. Of course you can, I'm super happy . And I think for these very specific topics we will take them as the people team and see what we can do, how we can improve on certain elements that we can directly influence.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see, okay. I want you to come back to something that you mentioned a few minutes ago about how a feedback culture is super important to you. What does that mean in the context of HeyJobs?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, in the context of HeyJobs, I think it's very much something that we base on our values. So, we have three values which is teamwork, drive, entrepreneurship. And I think we make it very explicit that teamwork for us means that we wanna collaborate. But also part of this is that we really directly wanna communicate and give feedback and receive feedback. And we're trying to put this into practice by having a lot of regular check-ins. So, I think there is a very much a jour fixe, or one-on-one culture. So, there's weekly or biweekly check-ins that team members have with their team leads. And then every six months we also have a feedback day where we take a day where we take the company out of their daily routines and their daily operations. And it's a whole day where we do company retrospective for the whole company on different areas. The teams will give upward feedback to their team leads. And also we will have a whole afternoon of peer-to-peer feedback where people can just feedback with people they work with closely, but maybe not in the same team. So, this is something that we have as part of the annual and very regular HR initiatives that we do.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, excellent. That makes sense. And then also, I wanted to ask about performance reviews. How do they work within HeyJobs?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So of course, this is also part of feedback. This is a different stream. So, we do a performance review every six months. So we also have a spring cycle or an autumn cycle, and we are doing this tool-based. So, we using Leapsome for this. Yes. And our performance reviews are facilitated via the tool. And we always review on the impact as well as the values. So, I think this also iterates that we believe it doesn't only matter what we achieve but also how we achieve this. And so, we're doing this every six months. It includes a direct feedback from team lead to team member and team member to team lead. But also it includes further information from peers that the team members working with.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, excellent. Thank you for that detail. And then within your team, what are the other processes that you own? Or what are the big strategic initiatives that your team have implemented recently?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I think recently it has been a bit of a crazy year, obviously. I think generally what we do care for is I think next to the feedback in the performance management area I think we do have one stream which is very much culture-based which just the team events. We have usually four company events a year and then we have a budget for individual team events. And I think all this is facilitated and also encouraged through the people team. We also have the people operations part where it's just scaling the company and making sure that how the company works other processes they're working, reviewing these processes. So, I think this is also very important part. And then you also have the talent acquisition side which is also planning ahead to how you're gonna feel positions that come up in teams when you're extending teams. So, I think there's a lot of streams in HR that you are trying to hold together in one team.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned that you have a dedicated budget for team events.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes.

Andy Parker (host)

- And so, I wanted to ask, like, in your role as a chief people officer, do you have a dedicated budget for HR? And can you talk us through how that budget is set, and how that budget is allocated, without giving away too many confidential specifics.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, I can't tell you how much it is. But yes, I have a budget . Every October, November, we are doing the budget process for the next year. So, the way it works is the budget really has two components. I think the one component is what I or we call maintenance budgets. So, this budget that I need to keep the company at the structure and the levels that it is. So, that would include company events that we do every year that would include setups that we have that would be include employee celebrations. So based on, and it's very much related to head count most of the time or number of new hires or new joiners. So, this is the budget I will do based on what are we planning, how are we planning to grow the head count? And this is basically just keeping the company at the level that it's now. And then there's a second part. And this was basically the investment cases that I make. So if I have any specific plans for next year also something that I believe we will need to implement as the company grows, then I make an investment case and I write down what I want and why I want it and how much it will cost. And I think then with every budget then you have all the different areas having the investment cases. And I think then it's just a conversation to be had. It's what do we need? The company needs more to invest in. What we think has the most impact. And on this basis we decide what kind of investment cases, and how many investment cases we wanna have in the people team.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see, okay. And so, as you mentioned you're now at 120 people, was it?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yep. And so, what are some of the big things that you're excited about looking forward? What are some of the topics that you've got your eye on for 2021?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Oh, okay. Moving forward. I think I'm always excited about growing the company. I think it's always challenging. And I think it's just the reality that when you grow a company you will also face challenges that you didn't know you had. I think it's just a very natural process that what the company needs and what the team needs will change with a different head count, different size, maybe you're moving into separate offices. So, I think for me next year I think it's a bit of an off year next year because it's so unpredictable and it's not really plannable. I think at this point we would like to go a little bit more into training and development. I think we're doing a lot of initiatives individually but I think the more the company grows you lose this implicit knowledge people have just by knowing everyone and talking to everyone. And I think making this a little bit more implicit and a little bit more formalized and train people. I think this is something I have kind of at the back of my mind at the moment, but I think just finding a new normal and making sure that everyone in the company is doing well and the company's doing well during that pandemic is probably number one .

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. And on the topic of training and development, are there certain programs that you have in place already today across the company?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yes. So, we have a very, very structured onboarding for all employees. So there is a lot of trainings and intros these employees get just to get very familiar with a lot of teams across the company, but also the culture and how we operate, and just like get a feel for the company and get a lot of knowledge about the market drops operates in the product, how we do things that take up. So, I think this is a very formal training for all the new joiners that we have. And we also have a graduate program at HeyJobs which is for young professionals that wanna join HeyJobs and just gain a lot more experience in the sales function. And it's a very structured two-year program that also has a two-year training arts. So, at different points, they will get different trainings from either external coaches or internal coaches, a lot of sales training. But I think especially for young professionals it's also a lot of internal training on how to communicate a little bit on self-awareness. How do you get to know yourself better? And how do you get to know how you function and operate in an organization? So, I think we already have very specialized like, very good training programs in place. But I think the more a company grows, I think this is always something you can improve on.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yes, yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's great to hear that you already have those graduate programs in place. How many people do you bring on in each cohort or such?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, so we start at the beginning of each quarter and we're adding about like 12 people into the program. I think for them, it's a nice number to have as a group. And obviously I think you always remember the people you start with and the people you've been in the first onboarding Swiss. And I think for them to experience this as a group is really nice. So, we have 12 people joining each quarter and they will go through the program together. They will be in different teams, which is nice because they will get to know like they will not just be that one group of camp professionals, but they'd be really like connecting with a lot of people within the company. But yeah, they will go through the trainings together and just have that experience as a group of them. And I think that's really, really nice to have and I think it's very hands-on experience, but it's also a lot of input and a lot of training and learning they can have the use to.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, excellent. That's a really exciting way to get an introduction to both the company and the industry. Very cool. And then of course you mentioned how this year has been rather unpredictable, let's say. For you as a people function, can you talk us through some of the challenges that you've had to face and some of the changes that you've made as a result of the pandemic?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, so yeah, I think it has been very, I remember talking to the team in June and we all thought the year was already over. Like, it felt like an eternity. I think it was for everyone. It was a very stressful time. I just don't think it's just the people teams affect that. But for us, because we were very office based company and I think this is also how we build the culture and how as a people team, we manage the culture. I think we created a lot of space and opportunity in the office for very unintentional conversation, unintentional bonding, where people just meet or people do a team event after work together, or people have the opportunity to mingle in collaborative areas. So, I think when you build a company that's so much based on the space you're all working in, then moving to a very fully remote setup, I think was for sure the main challenge. I think the main challenge is that you try to create this unintentional meeting and conversation, and bonding space in a remote environment which means you need to make it a lot more intentional. And I think we are still learning. And I think the whole internet has been learning how to do that. And I think it's just the process for all of us. But I think the team's been great and they've really engaged. And yeah, I'm really happy how we got to December, nearly December .

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, absolutely. And then, do you foresee yourselves going back to the office in exactly the way that you were set up before? Or do you think that there will be lasting changes that will come as a result of this?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, so I think we looked into it how we would want to set up the work more long-term for the first time in September. And I think there's a lot of learnings you can have from that experience, moving everyone fully remote. Because I think before that, everyone has a personal opinion to home office. People like it, people don't like it but not everyone has an experience with it. And I think now for the first time you could have that conversation everyone experienced. That everyone had their own experience with it. And I think we found that it was very different the effect it had on different teams. And I think we found that for certain teams at work incredibly well which was assigned like where we couldn't really see that it affected people. And I think there are certain teams for who really wanted to go back to the office, and who really missed that. And I think it really differs. I think it differs maybe on your personal circumstances like how are you living on your own and really feel the isolation, or do you have a family and you feel it's too busy. And I think it's very depending, but I think we've found that we will not go back 100% to that office space setup, but we actually looked into making it more of a hybrid, like some office days, some onsite days. And I think we're still in the process of figuring it out long term, but we've been looking into different work modes for different areas and how they can work together.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yes, yep. And has there been anything that you have found has worked particularly well for you during this time?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Remote work or?

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah. To make a remote working more efficient for everybody.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I hope so. I hope like we try to get everyone a really good set up. So, we made sure that we could have desks and chairs and screens and just every, like I think the IT set up, we did really well. And then I think we did a lot of initiatives to really support people in that area, because I think it's not just about. And I think we shouldn't forget it's not just about a changing work mode for people. It's also living in a global pandemic and how it affects everybody's life. So like people can't travel anymore. People can't visit families anymore. And I think we did a lot of initiative on that part as well, just supporting people and mental health and bringing this issue to more visibility because I think this was one part during the pandemic that I think needed a lot of focus for the team. And I hope we're doing a good job but this is a little bit the crux with remote. It's not as easy to get a feel for people and get a check. And like, I think you need to do a lot of, you need to really call people, make coffee meets. But I think the team's done really well. Yeah, so far I hope we're doing a good job in supporting everyone in that new setup.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, and on the topic of mental health are there any initiatives that you have done specifically on that area?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, so I think mental health for me is as a bit of a very core to my heart. I think it's one of the topics that still has a very, very high stigma in a working context. So, this is something I really push. So, we started a cooperation with Mila Health, which is an online platform that offers, they offer a couple of online courses for stress reduction. But what I think is really like one of the USPs they offer a range of people you can talk to. So, they have professionals, they have business coaches, therapists in the back of their team you can talk to. So, this is something we offered to the team to use and really make use of that. Because I think as an employer, you cannot expect people to freely share everything about their private lives even though it might affect their work. And I think this gives them a platform to be very free about sharing and getting the support they need. And we also did a lot of health and just movement challenges. So we had a health challenge where we just gave little tasks to people like, hey, I walked 10,000 steps. And we implemented a few more Zoom classes. So, we have a meditation class. And I think a couple of weeks ago was mental health awareness day worldwide. I'm really bad with those dates, but we actually have a mental health week at the moment where we do like a daily meditation with an external coach. So, I think we gave that a lot of visibility and I hope that it really helps people to stay sane .

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, that's really great that you offer these opportunities to employees when needed. That's excellent. Great, so, I wanted to jump back to the career topic for HR professionals. If you mentoring somebody just starting out their career in HR, what would your advice to them be today?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- So, I, honestly, I sometimes don't really feel qualified saying this because I did not have a very straightforward CV and I have not had that specific career path in my mind for myself. I think I always knew I wanted to work with people and what I did, should've had like people at their core. I honestly think what helped me most as an HR professional is doing a lot of work on myself and becoming aware of how I work and how I interact, because I think this is the basis of understanding how humans connect and humans respond. And I think this is something I think if you're enjoying HR, something that would always help in creating relationships with people and really getting to be able to help them as the better you understand yourself. So I think this is something that I found very useful for myself and just really, we really enjoy working with people because I think there was a lot of ways into HR and I think everybody has their own preferences. So for example, a very long time ago but I trained in payroll and I absolutely loved it. And a lot of people don't like it. I think, it doesn't really matter what you specialize on to go through a certain career paths but I think that you really want to work for people and for a team and really make better how these people connect and communicate. And I think, this is just what I would tell people .

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, yeah, thank you for that. And so, you said that you've had perhaps a non-traditional career path into this routes. And you mentioned the training about payroll, which is one aspect. But, has there been any other particular like trainings or career development topics that you've embarked on that have been really impactful for your own career?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I think the hardest transition you make or I don't know if it applies to everyone, but I also see it now at HeyJobs in the team. I think that one of the most significant transitions you will make is when you move from an individual contributor to a team lead. I think that transition is very substantial and I think people find it really hard to rearrange priorities and how to structure themselves. And I think it's kind of like people think they still need to do everything by themselves. And they also need to manage a team while the challenge is how can you get things done with and through a team? And I think any trainings I had at that transition point when it came to leadership and prioritizing and how to motivate people, and how to really manage my time as my most valuable resource. I think this is the trainings that have been very fundamental to me. And I think this is also something I always try to give back and give to new leaders because I think this is a transition that's very substantial. And I think it really affects a lot of how well you deal with this transition, how well you set up for moving further.

Andy Parker (host)

- I see, yeah. And obviously that applies to anybody in their career, not just to people and the HR function.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, of course. Yeah, I think it's, but I also think that it's the challenges you have are not always very specific to the job you do. I think we all go through super, super similar challenges and what we learn and what's the next building block is.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, excellent. And so in in your role today, then where do you go for your resources, your inspiration, your learning to make sure that your skillsets are at the forefront of the industry?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I think it's interesting. I think what one of your most learnings is being really aware of what's going on around you. So, I think it's educating. I think people in your team and in your companies that are always mirroring what's going on in society. And I think everybody has, it's not only affected by work, but also by society. So, I think I try to keep up a lot by reading what's going on. I read a lot of medium articles and I just talked to people. And I think, yeah, I think just being really open to learn and also let yourself be educated about things you might not know a lot about is something that helps you to understand people and how to bring people together. So, I think this is, yeah, just a lot of looking what's going on in the world.

Andy Parker (host)

- And that sounds good. Are there any other books that you have read in your career that you found particularly impactful?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- I think I read, "The Art of Happiness," by the Dalai Lama which is so old and I read it months ago. But I thought it was really, really interesting when came to human connectivity and interaction. And I also read, "Emotional Intelligence," which is also super old book but I think it's still incredibly relevant. And I think it was one of the first books I read that really concerned with like the psychological part of leadership of dealing with humans, dealing with people. And I still, I really enjoyed it, and I still think it has a lot of relevant applications today.

Andy Parker (host)

- Okay, excellent. And so, then the books that you would recommend our listeners to to check out.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Andy Parker (host)

- Great. And so, a couple of final questions. How do you see HR evolving as a function? All the other aspects of the role that you think have really shifted over recent years and where do you see that heading in the future?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, I think the main shift that has been happening to be honest is the one of the definitions. So, I think HR was very much for a very long time concerned with the resource was one single resource in the company. And I think a lot of times nowadays it's moving to people, and people teams, and people manage on. I actually think this is one of the developments that has been really important to acknowledge that people are not, I mean, as much as they are a resource and not one resource, they are the core of your company. And they're the core of how you achieve things as a company. And I think this mindset shift has been really significant, and I think it opened up a lot of initiatives and developments after that. So, how do you see people not only as employees, but as a whole, how you deal with people. How you develop people. So, I think this mindset change has been really good for the people function .

Andy Parker (host)

- And then lastly, obviously, there are always many challenges that we will face in our jobs. And maybe this isn't specific to your job, but is there an HR challenge as a whole that you wish could be solved?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- And an HR challenge.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, so something that perhaps if you could wave a magic wand, that would would be really impactful, something that you would help to fix.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Interesting. I think if I could get everyone to talk more with each other and communicate more, and listen more, I think that would literally solve a lot of HR problems.

Andy Parker (host)

- I think that's very, very valid. And that's something that sounds very easy but I can totally imagine is a big challenge for you.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, to be honest I think it's interesting how little we listen, and how little we communicate considering it's sometimes the easiest and shortest measure we can have. And I think this is something I always try to encourage. And I think a lot of work you do as a people team is getting people to mediate, to talk to each other, to understand each other better, to understand themselves. So I think, yeah, I think as you said, I think it's a such a simple measure that people don't do enough .

Andy Parker (host)

- And so, just to dig into that, you mentioned that obviously people have their one-on-ones at HeyJobs. Are there any other initiatives that you try and help facilitate to enable people to have these conversations?

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah. So, I think what we do is we ask quite a lot of feedback. So, I think this is just really asking people, hey, what did you think about this? What did you think about this? I think this is something that's really important. We also do a lot of work to strengthen the team dynamics and the team bonding with the team lead, but also across the teams. So, I think this is something that you really need to facilitate to give people these platforms. And yeah, and I think especially now we're creating these unintentional meetings, and the unintentional conversations that people have with lots of tools and lots of trial and error. But I think this is something we are trying to recreate remotely as well that people just get to chance meet and have a conversation with each other.

Andy Parker (host)

- Yeah, yeah, excellent. Great, well, Daniela this has been a really interesting conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. And yeah, I hope you've enjoyed it as well.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, thank you.

Andy Parker (host)

- Great, thank you very much. Take care.

Daniela Kurrer (guest)

- Take care. Bye.